Prayer is Forbidden by Church Leaders

One reason I am "Unleashing Seasoned Believers" is summarized in the story . It was sent in Dan Gilliam, an old friend from the 1980's. It reminds me of similar stories I hear over and over that far too often, the most seasoned, experienced, wise, biblically grounded, well balanced and dedicated Christians are being quashed and stifled by the churches they have loved and supported for years or even decades.

That is not always true, of course, but there is a "spirit of control and fear" in many congregations. These churches have an immediate, reflexive "NO! response" to any desire for freedom to minister, lead or influence others.

Church Cancels Prayer Service

So I heard from a bird this week that a certain Christian church in a Western state recently made the decision to cancel a small prayer and meditation worship gathering because it did not fit within the parameters of their philosophy of spiritual development and programming. Sounds familiar.

This gathering did not fit the church's philosophy and programming from day one. Ironically, that's why it was started; to provide a place and time for church members (including the church leadership) to grow in their relationship with God by expanding their personal and corporate practice of prayer and mediation.

The wheels were in motion to cancel (it) months after it started. It wasn't so much a matter of small numbers, though the small attendance figures were a problem for some from the beginning. It was more that the "program" of the silent gathering was un-programmed. (It) allowed for the possibility that someone might think something to themselves and assign an aberrant message to God.

Hmmm. After all, we really can't know for sure that God is speaking to us unless someone is reading the Bible to us, preferably someone ordained by an approved Bible College. God would never give each of us the ability to learn to hear His voice (like sheep know their Shepherd's voice) when he has clearly given us preachers to tell us what God thinks and to explain to us how to interpret the ancient words he gave to Moses, Jesus and Paul.

All religious people know that silence is a gateway for Satan to come in, therefore it is best if we never wait in quiet before the Lord (except by ourselves at home for our private devotions) when we can safely worship God with clanging cymbals and amplified gongs.

That would be bad. So, it really is best that this prayer and meditation gathering got canceled rather than attended ... In the long run it was going to hurt the church. Prayer can do that, especially if we don't really want God's input into how we do church. (Edited)

Enjoy Life,

Dan Gilliam

www.dangilliam.net

Well, what do you think? Is it dangerous to actually allow people to seek God and respond to His voice? Maybe they are right and the people cannot be trusted.

Photos from the October Gathering

What Do You Think About Boomer Believers?

This blog hopes to assist the many men and women who are dissatisfied with their current spiritual situation. Most have been involved in church and para church groups for two or three decades but have grown weary of pew sitting or volunteering to do the same old boring things they had always done. They came to me for counsel because they wanted more out of life in the Spirit.

(Photo: Three Seasoned Believers discussing how to unleash Boomers.)

Peggy Lee's song, "Is that all there is?" is the theme through many of their stories. A refrain I heard, "I helped run a large, creative company and made a lot of money but now I want to serve the Lord and 'give something back'".

When I asked about the things they could do at church I got the same answers: "I can sit on a boring committee, teach Sunday school and donate. And, of course, I can attend and sit still while some guy half my age tells me his opinions about the world."

What are you seeing in your city, town or region? Are the Seasoned Believers satisfied with their level of spiritual involvement and creativity? Are they treated like old fogies whose time has come and gone? Are the often bored?

Write and tell me what you see, hear and want to have. The ball is in your court.

More from Loving Deb Smith

While Karen and I were out of town we received the following note from Michael Cristiani, one of the heroes along with Rick and Barb Hine of the creative and interconnected blog for Deb Smith and her family. Read and look at the photos.

These men and women were mostly college students when Karen and I opened our house and heart the hordes coming to faith in Christ in 1970, 71, 72 and 73. Tom Smith was called at that time to head the new Christian Student Fellowship Ministry on the campus of the University of Cincinnati. He met and married Deb and they developed "The House of the Carpenter". This experiment in communal living had rooms and real love that became a center of Revival for Cincinnati in the Seventies.

Now those "kids" are mothers and fathers, grandparents and business owners, church leaders and engineers, politicians and preachers. They have been "SEASONED" by life's realities. The love, truth and power offered them at the House of the Carpenter soaked into their DNA. Most God and His people in many and varied ways both inside and outside formal ecclesiastical systems. But, they began their faith walk as revolutionaries so finishing that way is no surprise.

Hello, Dear Ones!

Today, November 4, 2007, is Deb Smith's 54th birthday. In remembrance, there is a new entry on Loving Deb Smith. It notes that today is Deb's birthday, and includes a link to a new photo album, Celebration of the Resurrection, which contains the photos used during the Mt Vernon and Cincinnati Celebrations.

There is also a small photo album (thanks to Randy Moody) of pix from the dinner and fellowship at Vineyard Community Church in Cincinnati. If anyone else took pictures during the weekend of the 20th-21st that they would like to share, please send them to Loving Deb Smith and they will be added to the album.

Your constant kindness and love are the Good News!

All Glory to God!
--
MANY BLESSINGS!
Peace and All Good!

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and God of all encouragement, who encourages us in our every affliction, so that we may be able to encourage those who are in any affliction with the encouragement with which we ourselves are encouraged by God. For as Christ's sufferings overflow to us, so through Christ does our encouragement also overflow. If we are afflicted, it is for your encouragement and salvation; if we are encouraged, it is for your encouragement, which enables you to endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is firm, for we know that as you share in the sufferings, you also share in the encouragement. (2Cor 1: 4-7)

Seasoned Believer Poster Children

I am always looking for "Poster Children" who exemplify Seasoned Believers who came to faith a couple of decades ago and have been serving God with faithfulness, verve and fire ever since. They are getting better with age even when the bones ache and eyes require trifocals.

Jim and Mary Buchan are natives of Ohio from the Columbus area. Jim followed his father into the legal profession for several years but it did not seem to fit after he met Christ. Mary became a nurse and her compassion led her into an interest in healing the whole person. It was not long before they followed the Heavenly Father into Pastoral Care and Teaching. (Mary's photo is on the right.)

But here is the interesting part. Jim and Mary are both very creative in the arts. Mary is a gifted musician and song writer who plays the guitar and sings her own creations and others in a soft and caring way. Jim is a very good writer and editor whose insights into publishing have led him to produce books, magazines and articles for several Christian publishers.

Now Mary has put out a web page to publicize her ministry of holistic care, counsel and consultation through combining the word, worship and wisdom from medicine and nutrition. I logged in and listened to her presentation on YouTube and I was impressed.

She is an of a Believer that has gained and depth of God's call through work, rearing a family and seeking God. Mary glorifies God and brings her talents, gifts and wisdom together in a holistic manner. Mary's website for her music ministry: www.marybuchan.com

Jim has helped many famous and not so famous people write and publish their insights. You can contact him at BuchanJ@aol.com

A Book for the New Millennium

Yes, another book.

It is WIKINOMICS, by Don Tapscott and Anthony D. Williams.

Anyone interested in having influence in the New Millennium needs to read it. It sub title says it all: "How Mass Collaboration Changes Everything".

Are you a business leader? You need it to read. Are you a Para-Church Leader? You need it to read. Are you an elder? You need it to read. Are you a Grand Parent? You need it to read. Are you a Parent? You need it to read.

We live in the midst of the Fourth Great Awakening as predicted by Nobel Prize winning Economist Robert Fogel. Fogel saw the revival of the Sixties as culminating in the Awakening in the New Millennium. Believers need to get on board now and ride God's waves of Renewal, Restoration and Reformation.

Just as Gutenberg revolutionized business, education, the Bible and thus the church and the world, the world wide web will revolutionize all institutions. Some Pastors are still trying to build a church designed to fit the 16Th Century and here we are in the 21st Century. It is frustrating to see such ideas in our churches.

Some old fashioned leaders are very afraid of anything unusual or different. Like dinosaurs who died because they could not adapt the current church movements are breathing their last unless the leaders wake up and smell the caffeine. Historically Christians led the scientific revolution, the American Revolution and the freedom from slavery revolution. Now is the time for a new revolution of communication, outreach and Christian impact.

The book Wikinomics is startling in its insights about what is happening in the world of business, industry, research science and world trade.

Make Your List and Check it Twice

Tomorrow Karen and I are off to visit Jack Donovan Sweeten, the 2 1/2 year old musical genius who lives in Steelers' Country. Oh well, we can't have everything.

While we are on vacation, design a program to deliver health care to those who need it. In the last blog I asked several questions. I have not received any Comments yet and I am disappointed.

Maybe the questions were dumb, uninteresting or off the point. But, there they are and I am stuck with them.



Take a swing at the questions and imagine you have been given a grant of $1,000,000.00 to spend on building a Christian health and healing ministry. Take a leap of faith and make up a plan to spend the dough that Bill Gates gave you to deliver health care more effectively. The whole world is in desperate need for a better system of health care.

Jesus, The Great Physician, seemed to know a lot about healing and He cared a lot for sick people. Does it make sense that he would ignore those people in the 21st Century? Why do so many Christians boycott health and healing today? Seasoned Believers have the knowledge, wisdom, experience and time to make real changes in the lives of millions of people.

Allow me to offer a hint. Almost every chronic disease today results from a badly chosen "life style". What Seasoned Believers have to offer are our spiritual, emotional and relational resources.

Second, many problems could be treated easier, cheaper, quicker and better if there as a system that brought all the resources together in one web page.

Third, the greatest needs are spiritual in nature not physical.

Fourth, lay people are critically important to enhancing good health.



Have fun!!

The Crisis in Church Growth

Imagine that you and your spouse are interested in helping poverty stricken people get good health care at a reasonable price. You are a doctor and your spouse is a nurse and you have a million dollars to invest in developing a solid, modern health care facility in the middle of a destitute nation.

What would you do with the million dollars to have the greatest long term effect?

Option #1. Build a clinic and offer free medical and nursing care to everyone who came.

Option #2. Start a nursing school and select a few highly qualified students to be trained.

Option #3. Start a medical school and select a few highly qualified students to be trained.

Option #4. Start a school to teach the villagers how to prevent diseases and care for themselves.

Option #5. Invite foreign specialists to visit each year and do badly needed surgery.

Option #6. Start a church and teach the people to pray, read the Bible and know Christ.

Option #7. Some combination of these. (Which ones?)

I have my priorities. Do you?

Seasoned Believers can do all of these, if they choose to do so.

Seeker Churches and Seasoned Believers

The last slide I have taken from the Reveal blog shows the data they discovered about their most dedicated and long term members. In what must have been a terrible blow to Bill Hybels, the data shows that their most committed people are also the most dissatisfied. In fact, they are so wrought up they want to leave the church soon.

Many of the members of this group are ready to bolt. That is what the huge drop at the end of the chart means. Such a realization would have to shake the foundations for any of us in ministry and, according to the Willow Web, it shook them to the core.

None of these slides is truly understandable if all you do is look at them on my blog. I urge you to buy the book, Reveal, and prayerfully read it with a new appreciation for what Willow Creek has done for us all. They, and the other churches in the survey, are certainly not alone in having worked hard to produce satisfied disciples only to discover otherwise. Go to their blog and read. http://www.revealnow.com/storyPage.asp?pageID=6

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The next step is the crucial one. What are we to do about it? What types of processes, programs, materials, gatherings will actually transform Christians into fully functioning, mature Disciples?

Willow Creek's Research is Still Boiling

An article in the web Out of Ur lays out the research of Willow Creek under a controversial title

October 18, 2007 Willow Creek Repents? Why the most influential church in America now says "We made a mistake."


The chart shows that people start well at Willow but "Hit walls" of problems crash, burn and drop out.

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/outofur/archives/2007/10/willow_creek_re.html The writer says it this way:

When I read the comments on the post I could see American Christianity writ small. Almost every person has an axe to grind. Several were wounded that the title seemed to attack Willow Creek. Others are upset that few churches are preaching "Expository sermons that go line by line through the text," because if they did we would not have so many immature Christians. (It occurred to me that Jesus would be considered a complete failure if He were judged by that standard.)

Here are my own comments:

Thanks to WC for a gutsy look at themselves. Think stages of spiritual growth just like stages of academic and emotional growth. WC has done well with Pre Believers and New Believers. Not so well with folks with spiritual problems who Stalled and not well with the older, more committed types. (See the chart above for those who stalled.)

So, WC is a good OB GYN unit that gets people born again and then follows up with pretty good nursery school and kindergarten but poor counseling and guidance for the children and teenagers who have problems.

They do worst with the Seasoned Saints who have developed a deeper life with Christ & need college and graduate school. So, WC has been very, very successful with beginnings but not on Finishing Well. I am an educator who read Reveal to see what kind of philosophy WC followed. It was said that they assumed if people came, gave and volunteered they would grow & be satisfied. They were wrong in that assumption.

The WC folks are smart and getting wise so I am sure they will learn from this and change their ways. I hope they consult an expert in Xn growth, healing and education.

Seasoned Believer Brings Health to Business

Bob Robinson, Jr. shows the Cincinnati Enquirer reporter Jon Eckberg how his newest invention kills the bacteria that can "eat human flesh." Bob's entrepreneurial abilities really began to bloom as a Seasoned Believer.

Bob and his wife Carlene were running Valley Supplies in Hamilton when Bob was inspired by a life experience of facing the difficulty of working in an unpleasant space cleaning to invent a "Hands Free" cleaning machine. He recruited his sons to help him come up with a great name and KaiVac was the result. It proved to be such a success that it is being hailed as a way to insure that schools, hospitals and cafes can be for all of us. Kai Vac is an internationally marketed brand of "No Touch Cleaning" Products.

Bob's University of Cincinnati Engineering background helped him hone his natural and godly gifts of creativity to integrate machinery and cleaning. That turned into a brand new, unique design clean rest rooms faster, easier and better. See Jon Eckberg's article at:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071023/BIZ01/710230388/-1/all

Remember, Seasoned Believers can minister in the Name of the Lord in any venue.

Taking A Stand

Luther: "Here I stand. So help me God, I can do nothing else. "

I wrote a long post for the Brave Heart Blog about all the Seasoned Believers we saw at Deb Smith's Celebration of the Resurrection. The church was filled with old friends who had come to faith in Christ back "In the day" and who were still, for the most part, living for the Lord all this time later.

Those young men and women in the Sixties and Seventies took strong stands for God despite the criticism of parents, preachers and pundits.

Take a look at the post on BRAVE HEART and see what you think. I am too tired to write again.

Speaking of Healthy Spirituality

It is not possible to grow in Christ without growing down as well as up. Growing DOWN means we must be taught how to meditate, contemplate, hear God and be away from noise.

Here is an opportunity for Women to Grow Down as well as Up.


Women: Register now for a room of your own at the November 2-3 Overnight Time of Refreshment Retreat at the Milford Spiritual Center.

Savor time alone with God, enjoy the beauty and serenity of the wooded grounds alongside the Little Miami River, opt for a personal seated massage, enjoy meals prepared for you, and be refreshed from the unhurried pace and peace awaiting you.

Friday, 7:00 pm through Saturday at 4:30.
Cost: $85.00.

To register, send an email to timeofrefreshment@gmail.com

Information call Judy Haag: 513-853-2995.

Great Link

While reading Rick Warren's update I noticed he had a link to an article written by Pastor Pete Scarezzo, an author and wise leader on healthy relationships. I was surprised to see that Pete has not only written and talked lots about Generational Family issues he is also focusing on another issue that I think is critically important to God's heart: Working through the Walls of our hearts to reach a depth relationship with God.

The link to Pete is: http://www.pastors.com/rwmt/article.asp?ArtID=10925

Pete is a great admirer of my latest spiritual hero, Janet Hagberg, a woman of wisdom and insight who wrote a book The Critical Journey with Robert Guelich ( Sheffield Publishing, 2005). I have found this book to contain great wisdom about the stages of spiritual growth and how "Hitting the wall" is a normal way that the Lord uses to move us deeper into wisdom and love.

It may be impossible for young people to lead Christian movements. They have usually not suffered enough to develop real wisdom and love. How many pits, problems and prisons does a Believer have to experience before he/she is ready to be an "Elder"?

Instead of pushing Seasoned Saints to bus rides to Branson and supper fellowship suppers with soft food these venerable saints need to have their wealth, wisdom and willing hearts unleashed in a blizzard of innovation, creativity and good deeds.

Social Security eNews

I read the news today, oh boy!

October 18, 2007

Big week at Social Security

This week the Social Security Administration made two important announcements.

On Monday, October 15, the nation's first Baby Boomer applied for Social Security Retirement Benefits online.

"Filing for Social Security benefits online is easy and convenient," said Kathy Casey-Kirschling, who turns 62 on January 1, 2008. "I urge my fellow Baby Boomers to give Social Security's online services a try. Save a trip and do business with Social Security from the comfort of your home or office."

To read more about that event and the agency's online services www.socialsecurity.gov/pressoffice/pr/babyboomerfiles-pr.htm .

On Wednesday, October 17, the Social Security Administration announced that monthly Social Security and Supplemental Security Income benefits for more than 54 million Americans will increase 2.3 percent in 2008.

To read more about the Cost of Living Adjustment www.socialsecurity.gov/pressoffice/pr/2008cola-pr.htm .

A Rant for Ministry to the Poor

We are in the midst of The Fourth Great Awakening. It started with the uprising of the Baby Boomers in the Sixties and will hit a high peak when the Boomers start hitting Sixty and above. It started with the Jesus People revival and will impact society best when those who were touched by God back then share our non-material or spiritual values with the world.

As a minister, counselor and consultant I am influenced by the books and thinking of Robert William Fogel, a 1993 Nobel Prize winning economist. Dr. Fogel writes on the importance of understanding Post-Modern ways to alleviate poverty and enhance a nation's economic strengths. His book, The Fourth Great Awakening is very insightful. He writes persuasively about the distribution of “non-material or spiritual resources” to alleviate poverty in the 21st Century. http://www.amazon.com/

Fogel suggests that we are in a new era of economic thinking. The things that keep people poor in America are not a lack of material resources but “spiritual” resources such as family values, education, thrift, sobriety, solid relationships, etc. As my dad always said, “Poor people have poor ways.” At the time we were very poor materially but we had a strong work ethic, good relationships with a supportive family, honesty, self responsibility, thrift, etc.

But I am very concerned. It seems that Evangelical Churches and Christian organizations are regressing back into a 1930's "Social Gospel Mentality" in their approach to alleviating poverty. Back then the main needs were definitely material and financial. When the Federal Government under FDR came up with all the programs to put people to work it was because they were without food, clothing and shelter even if their non-material values were excellent. Hard working Christian families had lost everything and FDR tried to "jump-start" things by setting up "make work programs".

The situation today is radically different. In order to move people up in the economic ladder they must be taught how to build solid relationships, learn to think differently and get out of the cycle of drugs, pre marital sex and unmarried mothers, abuse and divorce.

This is the opportune time to "Unleash Seasoned Believers" whose wisdom, insights and experiences can be transferred to the chronically poor. We can show them how to make the changes necessary to leave a legacy of health, wealth and stability.

What can a church do? "Equip the entire congregation to help themselves and offer support to others." (In the literature this is called, "The Psycho educative Model". Poverty arises primarily from mental, emotional and relational weaknesses. It can only be solved by improving the spiritual resources of the community not just the individual.)

The "Expert Model" is based on an outmoded, old fashioned idea that suggests poor people are victims and must be rescued by doctors, ministers, psychologists, medicine, money and smart people. This model may have worked in the past but they are failing now.

What not to do: Do NOT develop programs that see poor people as victims who must be rescued. That is a Model from the early 20Th Century and is a recipe for "Co-Dependence Disasters". The current "One Up Model and One Down Model" of Government Anti-Poverty Programs has failed and made poverty worse.

The Medical Model that dominates Psychiatry and Psychology has failed miserably. I developed and oversaw an in-patient psychiatric hospital and outpatient clinic. The greatest benefits comes not from the experts but from the other patients and the family. We in this profession know the research about what causes a good outcome and it is not just because we have the answers.

About 40% of all psychological advancement for those in psychotherapy comes from friends and family not the expert therapist. Only about 15% comes from the pills, the psychological interventions and the psychological/medical insights of the expert. Why would a cutting edge church with enormous spiritual resources want to mimic an outmoded clinical model?

But I am concerned because a lot of influential ministers are promoting the clinical/expert model. It won't work and many people will have their cycle of dependency deepened rather than alleviated.

Seasoned Believers need to use their resources wisely. It is wasteful to throw money at poverty. We must put our spiritual, mental and relational wisdom to work. Ministers, do not trade your deep spiritual wisdom for a "Bowl of psychological pottage".

What Hath God Wrought!?

This was the comment by Alexander Graham Bell immediately after he discovered that the instrument he was tinkering with actually worked. They later called it the "Telephone" and Mr. Bell was stunned by the sovereignty of God in such an invention.

Is your church ready for a new breed of laity?

My response the idea that God is involved in bringing the Fourth Great Awakening to pass in our time begs for another question about what God has wrought. I had no idea when the Holy Spirit woke me up to observe what He is doing Seasoned Believers. The fact is over 50 million people have come to know and follow Christ over the past 40 or so years. The fact is, they have been forever changed by the mantra in every Bible believing church in America that, "All are called and all are gifted."

It is too late to preach"You haven't the education, credentials or right gender to use the gifts God bestowed on you."

It is too late to say, "We did not really mean it when we told you "God has given you His word so read it and act."

It is too late to say, "Just sit and listen to another 100 sermons by people of half your age and one third your experience."

We will not believe you when you write books telling us that "The Holy Spirit has stopped working in the world."

God is saying, "Unleash my people" and when God says it it will be done.

How to Comment on My Blog

I am receiving calls from folks who have not figured out how to leave a comment. It is not a crisis for many because they send me their comments on email or call me. That works for locals but not for international friends or people from the other side of the USA.

I couldn't figure it out very well until I played with it until I did. So here goes some simple steps.




1. Click the comments link at the bottom of any post.
2. A comment window will open.
3. Type in your comments.

















4. Click "Anonymous" or "Other" unless you already have a Google Account.

5. Your comments come to me for moderation.
6. Unless you threaten the President I will approve them.
7. Voila, they appear in the blog.

Seasoned Believers Want---

Take a leap of faith and go for a Time of Refreshment!

The Willow Creek research in the book, Reveal, indicates that a high percentage of experienced, highly involved believers are quite dissatisfied with the level of equipping they are getting. One way to respond to that complaint is to preach deeper sermons and have classes on theology.

As an educator I would suggest something else. Perhaps in addition to preaching and teaching more Bible content, I would urge Pastors to take people deeper into a personal, experiential relationship with God. Preaching and teaching tend to rely almost solely upon stimulating the "Cognitive or Rational" centers of the brain. Although that is absolutely necessary, it is not sufficient.

Christians, especially Seasoned Saints, desperately need to encounter God in prayer, meditation, contemplation, worship and the word. Transformation comes best and most quickly when we "Touch the hem of His Garment" and that require more "Right Brain Encounters" to balance the Left Brain" emphasis of Western Christianity.

See the last post for registration details.

Time with God for Discernment

Women: Register now for a room of your own at the November 2-3 Overnight Time of Refreshment Retreat at the Milford Spiritual Center.

Savor time alone with God, enjoy the beauty and serenity of the wooded grounds alongside the Little Miami River, opt for a personal seated massage, enjoy meals prepared for you, and be refreshed from the unhurried pace and peace awaiting you.

Friday, 7:00 pm through Saturday at 4:30.

Cost: $85.00.

To register, send an email to timeofrefreshment@gmail.com

Information call Judy Haag: 513-853-2995.

Revealing Research

Taking care of the Babies

I greatly disliked the statistics and research classes I had to take in Graduate School. I was always somewhat afraid of math and statistical correlations, terms of significant to the .001 level and so forth me. However, looking back I am convinced that those classes were extremely helpful to me as a Minister and Counselor.

One of the oldest saws of research statistics is that there are "Liars, dang liars and statisticians", implying that we can make stats say almost anything we want. That is only true if we are explaining something to a person who knows nothing about how data can be manipulated.

The lesson for us is to remember that the research contained in the Reveal Book are not as valid as the Bible nor do they replace Holy Scripture. However, the gutsy approach of Willow Creek can be very useful to check up on how we are handling holy matters in a practical way.

For example, I was teaching in Singapore at the TESS Bible School and unconsciously using an Americanism that was offensive in the Chinese culture. Hoe Sing Ho, one of the brave students, took me aside and let me know what I was unconsciously doing. That was research in action and I stopped the offensive gestures.

Willow Creek's research is not perfect but it can give them and us cause to evaluate what we are doing to disciple and equip the saints to grow up into adult believers. The data SEEMS to indicate that they, and several other congregations, were not doing an adequate job of taking their people beyond the Baby Stage of Christian Growth.

Such feedback is cause for a pause and . The data did indicate that there was a spiritual growth continuum.

Reveal shows a Four Stage Growth Process:
1. Exploring Christianity: Interested but not committed
2. Growing in Christ: Attending, learning
3. Close to Christ: Attending and Giving
4. Christ Centered: Sold Out

These stages may be inadequate explanation of the dynamic process of faith but it is a good beginning. The next time, the surprising difficulty of growth and the questions it raises for all of us.

A Workshop for Wives of Ministers

The Gathering last Saturday proved to be an exhilarating event. We have been getting positive feedback as well as corrective input for the future from many friends. Thankfully, several have made comments on the blog. (Add your own.)

==============================Steve and Gary



One idea seems to make a lost of sense to implement right now. Here it is!

Steve Griebling has agreed to teach a class exclusively for Ministers' Wives called: “Survival Skills for Wives in Ministry”. They are on Nov 5, 12, 19 26

The sessions will be from 7:00-8:15 at the Life Way Counseling Center in Blue Ash.

(Exact Directions when you sign up.)

The enrollment is limited to ten women for maximum personal attention.

Possible Topics

How to love people without taking their problems
How to minister to distressed minds without losing your own
Boundaries as a Minister’s wife
Leisure, fun and be relaxation
Developing a support system that you can trust

• The approach will be interactive, confidential, practical, fun and offer insights about ministry like you never heard before.


• Steve is a Family Therapist who served many years on the staff of a congregation in Columbus, Ohio.


• Send your queries to stevegriebling@hotmail.com =


• Each attendee will receive notes, resource lists and a DVD by Dr. Gary Sweeten on the importance of “Committed Couples”. The DVD can be used as a personal guide or for teaching small groups and Sunday school classes.


• The cost is $20.00 per night.
  
• Call Steve @ 984-8274

More Research from Reveal

The Willow Creek Church and its Association has led us through many changes and challenges over the years and it appears that we are at the watershed of another "Tipping Point". In the book, Reveal, Willow opens their research results even though some nay sayers about the "Seeker Centered Movement" would say, "We tried to tell you this for many years".

The Seeker Center Model seems to be predicated on the assumptions that "If you build it they will come" and "If they come they will encounter Christ" and "If they encounter Christ and keep coming they will grow in love, hope and charity". As indicated in an earlier chart I posted, they have discovered that "Attendance, giving and serving are not enough to always promote spiritual growth".

In fact, the surveys of a lot of people from several different churches found that after a strong first beginning, many of the people tended to "STALL". A high percentage of the growing Believers "Hit the Wall" and dropped out or became disillusioned.

They also discovered that a fairly high percentage of the "Walled and Stalled" encountered some powerful spiritual, emotional, relational problems without support to get through. These ranged from marriage and family struggles, compulsive or addictive issues, financial struggles and so on. Many were in small groups and served the poor yet they were unable to break through the "wall" themselves.

It does not appear that the Willow leaders know what to do to remedy the situation. I have some ideas but they will have to wait until a later post.

(Point of personal privilege: This same kind of issue has arisen in many other churches and groups. The people who invited me to train their Cell Group leaders in Asia had seen the same things happen. Even though they were very charismatic and promoted a great deal of healing prayer, worship and personal ministry, a high percentage of their recent converts hit walls of spiritual and emotional crises. I trained the Cell Leaders and Pastors how to minister in the cell Groups with Care and Counsel for ten years. Placing people in groups without specific care and counsel training can be a disaster.)

This is the SLS Logo in the video What if?


We had a grand time Saturday and one of the highlights was the introduction of a new video called, "What it?" by Steve Helterbridle. The video was produced to open the door to viewers who do not know much about the challenges of being a Seasoned Believer.

http://wms11.streamhoster.com/s70x7/whatif_final.wmv

What if? introduces the current situation facing Seasoned Believers. Click and see what you think and make a comment.

A Great Time Was Had By All

People came from miles around to think about, pray and discuss the issues surrounding those of us who consider ourselves to be Seasoned Citizens or Seasoned Saints. We met from 9:00 AM til 3:00 PM at the Mill Conference Center at the Winton Woods Golf Course, a part of the Hamilton County Park System. (Photos will follow.)

In 1983 I heard the small, still voice of the Holy Spirit whisper I will pour out my Spirit on all people for a New Reformation. In the First Reformation I took my Word out of the hands of a few and gave it to all. In this Reformation I am taking my Works out of the hands of the few and giving it to all my people.

Since that day I have had the opportunity to travel to many parts of the world and have experience first hand the fulfillment of that word. Over the past forty years since the Second Reformation began in the Sixties we have seen enormous changes in the spiritual climate and activities in the USA and the rest of the world. I tried to summarize the Top Ten Changes.

1. Spirit poured out on all Christians
– Massive revivals
– Many come to faith and then share His word to others

2. Knowledge of the Word for all

– God's people begin to devour the Scripture

3. Gifts for all

– God's people begin to do His works as well as know His word

– Practical ministries spring up all over the world

4. All are called to minister.

– Male and Female, Old and Young, Rich and Poor, Black, White and Brown all nationalities.

– The Revivals break down old enmities and draw people together

5. Millions of Activist Christians

– God's people grow up with Wisdom, Wealth and Willing Hearts and Minds

6. No Dualism
– God's people live spiritually all the time

– No separation of life in church, home, work and leisure

7. Longevity increases dramatically
– Family structure changes; multi generational families
– Experience of family life is different
– Disposable time, talents, energy and wealth is available

8. Travel, Communication increase

– Many laity are experienced in international affairs

– Christian radio, TV and papers increase knowledge

9. Tension between tradition and reality
– Never been here before

– Many people want new ways of knowing God and doing His works

10. Opportunity for an Awakening

– The major problems of life are spiritual